It’s never just sodomy

We may like to believe that there are people whose view of the human condition is basically sound with a little blind spot concerning gay marriage, but this is never the case.  This issue contains a worldview, and to be proven unsound here is to be fundamentally unsound, and fundamentally in league with the Enemy.

Case #1:  Jody Bottum, whose surrender on sodomy has roots in his longstanding belief that the peoples’ authority trumps God and objective truth.

Case #2: Wendell Berry, reputed as a defender of rural peoples, who energetically demonizes them for their deepest beliefs.  As Jerry Salyer has now shown, this treachery also had deep roots in his hatred of authority and organized religion, and his loyalty to the Democratic Party.

It is unjust to grant natural families public recognition while denying the same to gay couples, argued agrarian writer Wendell Berry in a 2013 speech he gave at Georgetown College in Kentucky. He went on to characterize those who would see law condone marriage—but not sodomy—as trying to get Christianity “officialized in some version by a government” and as recreating “pretty exactly the pattern of the chief priest and his crowd at the trial of Jesus. For want of a Pilate of their own, some Christians would accept a Constantine or whomever might be the current incarnation of Caesar.” Berry dismisses the belief that homosexuality is a sterile and deviant behavior. For him, homophobia is a more pressing problem for communities than homosexual activism: “Jesus talked of hating your neighbor as tantamount to hating God, and yet some Christians hate their neighbors by policy and are busy hunting biblical justifications for doing so. Are they not perverts in the fullest and fairest sense of that term?”  (“Wendell Berry Expounds On Gay Marriage,” Associated Baptist Press)

Should we be startled by such declarations, or shouldn’t we? Yes—and no.

See why here.

16 Responses

  1. Sodomy stands on rather precarious footing to be honest. Despite all the noise about homosexual marriage, most people dont actually realize what homosexuality usually entails (perversion and disease as a rule). When they find out about things like 72 hour crystal meth fuelled orgies, bugchasing or even just well, sodomy, the response is usually overwhelmingly negative. Propaganda has done a fine job in obscuring all of this and presenting homosexual marriage in an almost sexless sense, like it was all about platonic love and companionship, but ultimately homosexuals cannot hide their nature.

    Rougly 2/3rds of married homosexual men engage in sexual relations with at least one extra partner.

  2. […] Source: Throne and Altar […]

  3. In the past this sort of religious innovation was called “enthusiasm,” since the enthusiast believed that the Holy Spirit had given him direct and immediate knowledge that God had made a substantial revision to his Word. Unsurprisingly these illuminations frequently involved relaxations of Christian sexual morality, although from the 17th century onward the good news was most often that polygamy was O.K. This was pronounced in Anabaptist sects; and of course it recurred in enthusiastic sects of the 19th c., such as the Mormons and the Oneida Community.

    The Church did not deny that a man could be illuminated by the Holy Spirit, but it tried to prevent unchecked heresies with a distinction between enthusiasm and zeal. Zeal was a revival of faith and a renewed determination to live a pious and holy life. Enthusiasm was just new–a revision of faith leading to departure from the Christian life.

    The real mark of enthusiasm is what Jim of Jim’s Blog calls “holier than Jesus.” Or maybe we should say “holier than the Apostles.” My question to an enthusiast is: “Why didn’t Jesus say anything about this? Or why did the Holy Spirit confide in you, while passing over St. Peter and St. Paul?”

  4. Rougly 2/3rds of married homosexual men engage in sexual relations with at least one extra partner.

    2/3rds? That will not impress any liberals. As long as there is one homosexual “couple” somewhere in the world engaged in platonic “love” and “companionship” this argument gains zero traction. And this single hypothetical couple could be a fictional one portrayed on television.

  5. The liberals have already dropped the monogomy pretense. Now they’re saying that heterosexuals should learn from the sodomites’ admirable “openness” and “realism”.

  6. What is interesting about Berry is that he has an earlier essay on marriage and poetry which directly points to heterosexual marriage as being the only valid form. So, Berry has many penetrating anti-modern insights. He is well worth reading. But, given the flip flop on marriage, I think we’re entitled to question just how much he really believes in any of it.

  7. 2/3rds? That will not impress any liberals. As long as there is one homosexual “couple” somewhere in the world engaged in platonic “love” and “companionship” this argument gains zero traction. And this single hypothetical couple could be a fictional one portrayed on television.

    Statistical arguments implicitly buy into a non-essentialist metaphysics, and consequentialist arguments implicitly buy into, well, a consequentialist ethics. I’m not saying those kinds of arguments should never, ever be made, but they are secondary, and you have to be aware of the potential problems with such lines of reasoning.

  8. Luqman:

    Simply grossing people is a poor way to argue this issue.

    A major coup of the gay community was to (relatively) clean up their act after the fiasco that was the 1970s and early 80s. Gay men are, for example, on average less promiscuous now than heterosexual black men.

  9. Berry and other Porchers describe themselves as “Jeffersonian-Agrarians.” It seems to me that he’s just living up to that description, a hardcore liberal with a facade of agrarian romanticism

  10. I really disagree The Man Who Was. It is nearly impossible to approach people on emotional issues (and this is one) logically or even with an appeal to religious morality. I would not underestimate the visceral disgust people feel for unnatural acts. Once people are exposed to the true goings-on they will almost always see homosexuals as alien to them. The gay community has never cleaned up its act by the way, I dont know how you got that impression. There was certainly a media push at sanitization of homosexuality but that is about it. I do agree that the American black community has degraded further.

    Media propaganda transfers the homosexual argument to the liberal harm/care paradigm. The only feasible counter as far as I can see is approaching the disgust/purity angle.

  11. The gay community has never cleaned up its act by the way, I dont know how you got that impression

    The data.

  12. The only feasible counter as far as I can see is approaching the disgust/purity angle

    Simple gross out strategy has already been tried and found wanting. The real problem is that people no longer have much of a sense of purity, so appealing to it is a sure loser.

    Basically, there is no immediate winning stragegy on this issue.

  13. And, as I say, the gay community has significantly cleaned up its act. There are large numbers of gay couples who live the bourgeois lifestyle and the modern sexual mores of gays and straights overlap more than they differ.

  14. BTW Bonald’s title is very apt. As far as it affects larger society, gay sex in itself isn’t exactly the most important issue in the world, but endorsing gay sex, even in monogamous form, happens to be a very reliable sign that you have lost your way on more fundamental issues.

  15. @The Man Who Was

    You may want to take a closer look at seemingly bourgeois homosexual couples. This is not really an appropriate place to expose the seedy underbelly of the community, but as far as the data is concerned; while AIDS has spread amongst heterosexual populations (keeping the argument outside of Africa) it is still overwhelmingly a homosexual disease. Quite recently the homosexual community in NYC was responsible for the development of a new strain of MRSA bacteria. The suicide, mental illness and drug abuse correlation with homosexuality persists etc. Nevertheless it is not my intention to make an argument out of something on which we probably agree in principle, but I would be grateful if you could clarify what exactly you mean by the data.

    Real probity of homosexuality is in any case proscribed.

  16. Notice none of what Luqman says contradicts what I said. That’s how weak his case is.

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