Excommunicate! Excommunicate!

Oh, happy day!  The traitors have decided to identify themselves and spare us the work.

A group of dissident Austrian priests has announced plans to engage in open defiance of Church law.

The Priests’ Initiative, which claims the support of 329 clerics, has argued in favor of administering Communion to Catholics who are divorced and remarried, allowing lay people to preach and to lead Communion services, ending priestly celibacy, inviting married priests to return to active ministry, and advocating the ordination of women.  The group says that it will ignore a warning from Cardinal Christoph Schönborn of Vienna, the president of the Austrian bishops’ conference, who warned that such open contempt for Church authority would have consequences.

In happier days, there would have been a stake for each one of these vermin.  As it is, we are at least presented with the opportunity to keep these rats, these traitors, these enemies of Christ, these sycophants to a Satanic zeitgeist from corrupting any more souls.  They have already damned themselves.  Let them spend the time they idle away before the commencement of their eternal punishment playing at inventing their own religion, where they can celebrate adultery and androgynism to their warped hearts’ content.  Of course, there’s the danger that they will decide instead to join some unwary Protestant church and spread contempt for tradition and marriage vows there, and I do apologize in advance to our separated brethren for that.  But, hey, at least you’ve been warned.

Note to Cardinal Schoenborn:  you must excommunicate, and you must do it now.  Do not take some meaningless “disciplinary” measure that will leave these heretic dogs with the care of souls.  Do not just forbid them to publicly dissent from Church teaching, because they will continue to do so from the pulpit and the confessional.  Do not dialogue; truth has nothing to say to error–except to demand recantation, especially to malicious error intended to undermine tradition, weaken families, desecrate sacraments, and encourage sin.  Do not make nice with these men, praising them for their “concern for the Church” and crediting them with an imaginary good will.  They are evil; they are the enemy; they must be crushed.  You can be sure they will show no mercy or courtesy to you.  Remember, their stated demands–abominable as they are–are just the tip of the iceberg.  I can say with close to 100% certainty that these priests also push sodomy, contraception, abortion, and communism, and that they deny every line of the Nicene Creed.  Do not do nothing, or you will have in effect relinquished your authority.  Do not stand back and hope the Vatican will take the necessary measures (and take the heat for it).  The Church demands that its bishops have balls for a reason.

Update:  Following Bill’s neat suggestion, I invite readers to predict what Cardinal Schoenborn’s response will actually be.

24 Responses

  1. The most frightening part is not these priests. The situation in the Church is far worse than this. We’ve known they were there all along. What’s terrifying is how weak the Cardinal’s response is going to be to all of this.

  2. This would be more fun if you coupled it with a prediction and invited your commenters to predict. I predict no excommunications.

    I don’t predict this because I think the hierarchs are a bunch of apostates but because I think this Pope and the previous Pope have decided that 1) schism is the worst possible thing, 2) that it is a real danger, 3) that they are not going to give the bad guys a casus belli for schism and that 4) this requires them to give the bad guys enormous latitude “for the hardness of their hearts.” I go back and forth as to whether this is a good policy stance, but I am guessing that this motivates their actions—it seems to have good explanatory power, anyway, and is a suitably charitable interpretation.

    In a way, I totally agree with your note. However, I think this makes most sense in the context of a relatively strong Vatican facing a relatively weak internal opposition (which threatens to grow stronger). You could argue that we are in the opposite situation, a weak Vatican facing a strong internal opposition which is sure to get weaker. Suppose you knew, to a moral certainty, that this mass excommunication would result in, say, 3/4 of the bishops in Western Europe and N America going into open schism, either directly or via a chain of events the excommunications would set off. Would you still be in favor? Suppose you further knew that, over the next century in the absence of schism, these sees would drift steadily back towards orthodoxy?

  3. Hi Bill,

    My impression is of a strong opposition growing stronger. As it is, these priests are worse than useless; they’re actually recruiting for the enemy. The drift everywhere is toward deeper and deeper heresy. On that reading, if the pope maintained the allegiance of ten percent of the universal Church, the excommunications would still make sense. If we wait ten years for a confrontation, that 10% might be 5%.

  4. That is the worse part. They’ve put the Cardinal in a position where he must act forcefully or essentially admit that the episcopacy has no power in the Church. You and I both know which choice he’ll make.

  5. You truly are a frightening little man…

  6. Unfortunately, we don’t know to a certainty, although I think it’s safe to say there is nothing to give anyone the impression that opposition to the Church’s magisterium will weaken with time. One must ask: Is the Church in the business of filling pews or speaking truths? If the former can only be achieved by compromising the latter… well, better that the Church become small, poor, and even persecuted.

  7. One must ask: Is the Church in the business of filling pews or speaking truths?

    I’ve always thought the Church is in the business of saving souls. Seems it can’t do this without speaking truths *and* filling pews.

  8. Filling pews by lying to people about what the good requires of them doesn’t save the souls of the faithless and it runs the strong risk of damning the potentially faithful. Speaking truth is necessarily superordinate merely to boosting attendance.

  9. It’s 500 years, and we’re still waiting for reform in the Catholic church.

  10. Growing stronger? Where are the Cardinal Mahoneys of the future coming from? The number of total weenies among young priests seems pretty small to me. There are an unfortunate number of Conservative types, but they seem reformable or, at least, distinctly less hostile to Catholicism.

    And this is without even considering the blessings of the coming priest shortage. Diocese all over America and Europe will be faced with the temptation of inviting in fssp and, we can hope, sspx priests just to cover Masses.

  11. I’d be deeply surprised if excommunication happened, for no better reason than that the last few years have taught me how utterly feckless even the fake right is in the face of evil.

  12. That’s it Dan. You are no longer welcome on this weblog. I will delete any future correspondence from you.

    Rot in hell, you atheist swine.

  13. Dan,

    This is really getting pathetic. You’ve submitted the same comment three times now. I can’t believe you don’t have better things to do. Bug off.

  14. I think it must be getting boring in his parents’ basement….

    Grow up, Dan. You may disagree with Bonald (as I do), but being an asshole is just being an asshole. You’re an embarrassment to your cause.

  15. Thanks Reggie. This is getting to be a bit of a nuisance. (I’ve had to delete another 2 or 3–I’ve lost track.) Sometimes I don’t appreciate the value of cordial disagreements.

  16. In Europe, post-Reformation schisms have proved small, but very durable, as anyone familiar with the history of the Jansenist Church of Utrecht and the post-Vatican I schism that linked up with it will be aware.

    I have no doubt that Cardinal Shönborn will be acutely aware of the presence of the Ultrajectine Church in both Austria and Germany, which would provide a natural home for these dissenting clergy and their followers.

    Moreover, as the French hierarchy have discovered, in the case of the SSPX, to withdraw a priest’s faculties is one thing, to recover possession of his church is another; in Austria, as in France, most churches and presbyteries are state property, and it is entirely a matter for the public authorities which religious association (if any) they allow to use a particular building. Now, in France, the public authorities are reluctant to remove a minister who enjoys the support of his congregation. If the same were to hold true in Austria, a schism could mean no Catholic church in a large number of parishes.

  17. Perhaps they will do like they did in Australia and simply remove them from priestly office. I doubt they will excommunicate anyone.

  18. If the Catholic church had the balls to excommunicate — or better yet, propounce anathemas — not only these jerks, but also the legions pf pro-abortion, pro-gay American politicians who proudly tout their Catholic identity, I might actually consider joining it.

    I dislike the mandatory priestly celibacy of the Latin Rite, but I do find it telling that the same people who advocate for married priests ALSO, in almost all cases, support womenpriests (unscriptural), remarriage after divorce (unscriptural in almost all cases), homosexuality (unscriptural), and other abominations. Always, eventually, abortion creeps in somewhere.

    I’m beginning to see why Rome defends priestly celibacy so vehemently. Allowing married priests is not intrinsically evil — indeed it is explicitly permitted in the Eastern Rite and for some Anglican converts — but those who radically agitate for married priests OFTEN seem to have a godless agenda.

  19. pronounce… not propounce…. sorrry, tpying too fst.

  20. Your remark calls to mind an insight of Newman’s
    “Again, another similar peculiarity in developments in general, is the great remoteness of the separate results of a common idea, or rather at first sight the absence of any connexion. Thus it often happens that party spirit is imputed to persons, merely because they agree with one another in certain points of opinion and conduct, which are thought too minute, distant, and various, in the large field of religious doctrine and discipline, to proceed from any but an external influence and a positive rule; whereas an insight into the wonderfully expansive power and penetrating virtue of theological or philosophical ideas would have shown, that what is apparently arbitrary in rival or in kindred schools of thought, is after all rigidly determined by the original hypothesis. The remark has been made, for instance, that rarely have persons maintained the sleep of the soul before the Resurrection, without falling into more grievous errors; again, those who deny the Lutheran doctrine of Justification, commonly have tendencies towards a ceremonial religion; again, it is a serious fact that Protestantism has at various times unexpectedly developed into an allowance or vindication of polygamy…”

    It would be easy to multiply examples.

  21. […] via Excommunicate! Excommunicate! « Throne and Altar. […]

  22. Bonald, why don’t the Austrians take the courage of their convictions, and join the liberal arm of the Anglicans? They should be ordered to a nice monastory to meditate on Augustine and the Stylites.

    Preferably a Russian Orthodox one, deep in Siberia, where the monks pray in Cyrillic and speak Uzbek.

  23. One word: inquisition. I would love to see the likes of ol danie boy in a brazen bull.

  24. Finally, Bonald. I was wondering why you let such an obnoxious troll hang around.

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